Posts by jonathan dough

54

Hi, Im newly out

by carpediem in

jw
friends

nice to be here and look forward to meeting you all.

i made a very sudden exit from 'the lie' approx 5 months ago.

was going to try and slowly fade but couldnt do it.

jonathan dough

Sorry, Dough, but even when helping our families out of the org we don't attack them with the words, "You are WRONG!" That is what they do to us and we hate it. It is not respectful. It is patronizing. It is a demonstration of poor social grace.

Saying that you're wrong is disrespectful? Oh come on, what am I supposed to say, you're right? If I think you're wrong, you're wrong. And if you deny God and the Bible, lady, you are dead wrong. You might look up the definition of "patronizing" because it doesn't fit the context of your point, and as far as poor social grace, then I stand in good company. Jws are wrong, too. I'm not singling you out. Maybe if you did tell the ones in the organization that they are wrong instead of tip-toeing around the issues you might have better success in freeing them. Of course they will hate it. Who wants to admit they were gullible enough to join a cult? That is the nature of the beast.

If you are an atheist or hate God, you are wrong. And if you deny Scripture, you are wrong; as a matter of fact, you are anti-Christ. No room for equivocation.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Ah yes, the old "only God could die for us", yep ... that's the answer to everything right? the unholy Trinity!

She happens to be right. What's your point? In English this time? Are you switching topics to the Trinity? There's already a thread on that.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

54

Hi, Im newly out

by carpediem in

jw
friends

nice to be here and look forward to meeting you all.

i made a very sudden exit from 'the lie' approx 5 months ago.

was going to try and slowly fade but couldnt do it.

jonathan dough

I do wonder about the one on here that can't take no for an answer when you tell them quite clearly that you do not believe the Bible to be inspired and, therefore, won't be using it in worship. No means no, Dough!

I'm not denying your right to believe that. I'm exercising my right to tell you that you are wrong and making the worst mistake of your life.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#trinity-home

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

Robdar wrote:

There was no original sin and there was no need for a sacrifice. Therefore, there is no equality and Christ's life was wasted.

you are interpreting my book wrong and backwards. Jews do not interpret Genesis the way you interpret it. BTW, Christians wouldn't have

such disagreement among themselves if they would quit trying to make the two testaments mesh. Stick with your own book.

3

A letter to Ray Franz? Can you help?

by dissed in

jw
friends

my wife and me would like to send a letter to ray and cynthia franz.. we knew them at bethel and now that we are out of the org.

would like to send them a note.. does anyone know and care to share an address or email?

an address would be better because we would like to enclose a gift.. pm me.. thanks,.

jonathan dough

I only have his email address, or one of them. It takes a while for him to respond due to the sheer amount of work and his health. Snail mail might be better.

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Jonathan and others;

The teaching of JW's and Bible Students that Jesus was just a perfect man is in error and this error started way back in the days of charles Russell.I will try to clear it up the best I can and as simply as possible;

Ummm ... much appreciated and I agree with everything you said. In fact, I'm the one who started the thread with the first post of info from a treatise I wrote on the topic. I go into a bit more detail than you, but we are on the same page. Thanks.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-3.html#15

54

Hi, Im newly out

by carpediem in

jw
friends

nice to be here and look forward to meeting you all.

i made a very sudden exit from 'the lie' approx 5 months ago.

was going to try and slowly fade but couldnt do it.

jonathan dough

a loving God would leave us with nothing more than a book about how to live the right way.

There's more there than you might imagine. Just don't read the NWT. Sorry you feel dissilusioned, but I think your definition of bigotry is a bit too broad.

27

New understanding

by darnkid in

jw
friends

i am disfellowshipped and i have two girls who live with their dad.

all of them are witnesses.

my oldest is 19 and baptized.

jonathan dough

I was an uber dub until I did some reearch for the Memorial this year. It suddenly dawned on me that the FDS were my mediator to Jesus and that I could not have a proper relationship with God without them. That concerned me. I strated doing some research which showed me that the organisation was based on foundation of lies and scams. I found out the truth about the occult practice of Pyrimidology practiced by Russell, the autocratic and despotic leader style of people like Rutherford and knorr, I woke up to the fact that the organisation is cult that uses processes such as disfellowshipping as a means to control people and information. My research and led me to here, where I was given some great advice and learned about other people who had been where I am now. I decided that I would fade from the congregation.

I could not leave outright, my whole life has roots leading back to the congregation. The majority of my family are Witnesses, most of my business comes from witnesses, 43 years of my life being a witness means most of my friends are too. My children's friends are primarily witnesses. A couple of months back I bought Crisis of Conscience as a download, I got my wife to read it. She is now supporting me. We rarely go to meetings and are doing what we can can to build a life outside, but we have to fade and not get DF'd or DA ourselves unless we lose our family, and (selfishly) our inheritance.

-------------------------

Breaks my heart.

30

so many questions...

by Aussie Oz in

jonathan dough

i'm a bit confused to find both Jw and 'apostates' on the same site... what gives there? i mean, when i was a JW, we were always taught to stay a LONG way from the 'bad guys'.

It's a set-up.

5

Dictionary Of Biblical Imagery (PDF)

by Bangalore in

dictionary of biblical imagery (pdf).. download link.. http://depositfiles.com/files/zv0dm9gs6.

.

bangalore.

jonathan dough

Hmmm ... well, at first glance it seems doubtful that the poster of this link violated anyone's copyright. But it is an area of law that is still a bit vague. I read recently that Murdoch is threatening to sue Google to try and remove links to Murdoch's site, or something to that effect. But for the most part it is nonactionable that I can tell .....

On the other hand I just don't know because the site that hosts the files seems to be impinging on those rights. After all, why would the authors offer it as a free download there if they are selling it on Amazon.com? So it would be analogous to illegal file sharing of music. Maybe it is illegal if those files shouldn't be up there in the first place. How is that for a non-answer?

And, if it is akin to illegal music file sharing not only the authors but amazon could claim damages and maybe the owners of this board would have some exposure for hosting the link. And those who take advantage of it knowing it is a theft of others' property would be showing their true colors.